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Marcel Dicke 談為什麼不吃昆蟲?

Marcel Dicke: Why not eat insects?

 

Photo of three lions hunting on the Serengeti.

講者:Marcel Dicke

2010年7月演講,2010年12月在TEDGlobal 2010上線

 

翻譯:TED

編輯:朱學恆、洪曉慧

簡繁轉換:洪曉慧

後製:洪曉慧

字幕影片後制:謝旻均

 

影片請按此下載

MAC及手持裝置版本請按此下載

閱讀中文字幕純文字版本

 

關於這場演講

Marcel DickeMarcel Dicke講述了讓人食指大動的例子,推廣將昆蟲添加到人們飲食中的想法。他傳遞給保守的廚師及美食家的訊息是:像蝗蟲和毛毛蟲這樣的美食,在味道、營養價值和環保上完全可與肉類媲美。

 

關於Marcel Dicke

Marcel Dicke希望我們重新思考人類與昆蟲的關係,推廣在現今這個飢餓問題日益嚴重的世界中,以昆蟲這種無害生態的美食代替肉類。

 

為什麼要聽他演講

Marcel Dicke喜歡挑戰偏見。他證實植物不是被動的,會在受到害蟲攻擊時,藉由釋放揮發性物質而發送求救信號,吸引肉食性昆蟲吃它們的敵人。Dicke開闢了新的研究領域,榮獲荷蘭科學研究組織斯賓諾沙獎,即荷蘭的諾貝爾獎。現在他希望改變西方世界對昆蟲的想法-特別是以昆蟲為食物。

 

「人們討厭昆蟲,但沒有昆蟲,我們可能甚至不存在,」他說。Dicke的公關宣傳於1990年代以一系列講座開始。之後他的團隊說服20000人參加於Waginegen舉行的吃昆蟲活動,而成了世界頭條新聞。如今,Dicke帶領他所謂快速成長的昆蟲農業研究,並預測昆蟲食品將於今年出現荷蘭超市的貨架上。這位前素食者吃昆蟲嗎?「每週至少一次。蝗蟲跟大蒜與香草植物一起烹調,配上米飯或蔬菜很美味。」

 

「自從1980年代,當Marcel Dicke說他首先證明植物可與其天敵的天敵溝通時,研究人員就揭開了植物和昆蟲之間複雜的互動關係。」

-Sophie Wilkinson,《化學與工程新聞》

 

Marcel Dicke的英語網上資料

Home: Entomology at Wagenigen University

 

[TED科技‧娛樂‧設計]

已有中譯字幕的TED影片目錄(繁體)(簡體)。請注意繁簡目錄是不一樣的。

 

Marcel Dicke 談為什麼不吃昆蟲?

好,我再次向大家展示一些關於我們飲食的事。我想先知道現場聽眾的情況,有哪些人曾吃過昆蟲?還真不少。(笑聲)然而,你們並不代表地球上所有人。(笑聲)因為事實上全球有百分之八十的人吃昆蟲,但這是很好的。

 

為何不吃昆蟲?首先,什麼是昆蟲?昆蟲是用六隻腳行走的動物,你可以在圖上看到一些種類。全球有六百萬種昆蟲,六百萬種,哺乳類只有幾百種,而昆蟲有六百萬種。事實上,如果把所有生物個體算進來,我們得到的數字會比這個大的多。事實上,地球上所有動物種類中,百分之八十是以六隻腳行走的動物。但如果我們把所有生物個體都算入,取其平均重量,地球上每個人會對應到大約200到2000公斤重的昆蟲。這表示以生物質量來說,昆蟲所佔比重比我們人類還大,我們住的不是人類的星球,而是昆蟲的星球。昆蟲不僅僅存在於自然界,也和我們的經濟息息相關,大多數人都不知道這一點。

 

根據幾年前一項保守的估計,昆蟲每年給美國帶來570億美金的經濟效益,對美國經濟來說這是一個十分大而免費的貢獻。所以我查了同一年花在伊拉克戰爭的費用,是800億美金。我們知道伊拉克戰爭花費不少錢,因此昆蟲免費為美國經濟帶來相當於伊戰規模的效益,卻鮮為人知。而且不只在美國,在任何國家、任何經濟體系裡都是。

 

昆蟲是怎麼辦到的?昆蟲會分解糞便,幫農作物授粉,我們吃的水果有三分之一都是藉由昆蟲授粉而產生。昆蟲抑制害蟲蔓延,也是其他動物的食物來源。牠們位於食物鏈底層,小動物吃昆蟲,大型動物也吃昆蟲,吃昆蟲的小動物被較大的動物、甚至更大型的動物捕食,位於食物鏈末端的我們也吃昆蟲。有很多人吃昆蟲,你們看到的是我在中國一個叫麗江的小縣城,它約有兩百萬人口,如果你去吃晚餐,就像在海產店挑選你要吃的魚一樣,你挑選要吃的昆蟲,廚師會把它變成色香味俱全的菜。你看到的是我在享用一頓有毛毛蟲、蝗蟲、蜜蜂等的大餐,每天還有新菜色。全球有超過1000種昆蟲被人類食用,種類遠超過人類食用的那幾種哺乳類動物,像牛、豬、羊。超過1000種-種類相當多。你可能會想,好吧,中國這個縣城的人吃昆蟲,我們可不吃。

 

我們剛才看到了,現場聽眾中有些人也許偶爾會吃昆蟲,但我要告訴大家,我們每個人都吃昆蟲,無一例外。你每年至少吃進了五百公克昆蟲。怎麼會呢?番茄湯、花生醬、巧克力、麵條等,所有你吃過的加工食品都含有昆蟲,因為昆蟲無所不在,在大自然裡、也在我們的穀物裡。有些水果受到蟲咬,像是番茄,就被做成番茄湯,沒被蟲咬的水果才會在市場販賣,這是你印象中的番茄。但也有些番茄會被做成湯,只要符合食品管理單位的規定,食品裡可以有各式各樣的東西,沒問題。事實上,番茄湯裡何必再放這些肉丸?裡面早就有肉了。(笑聲)事實上,所有加工食品中的蛋白質含量比我們所知的還多,所以任何食品都是我們的蛋白質來源。

 

現在你可能會說,「好吧,這500克只是我們不小心吃進去的。」事實上,在很多食品中,我們故意加蟲進去。投影片上有2個例子,粉紅色餅乾和蟹肉棒,或是Campari酒。我們吃的紅色食物很多是用天然色素染的,蟹肉棒,就是蟹肉,或是仿蟹肉,事實上是用胭脂蟲染料染色的白魚肉。胭脂蟲染料是用一種寄生在仙人掌上的蟲做的,以每年150到180公噸大量生產,主要產在祕魯的加那利群島,是一項重要的產業。每一公克胭脂蟲染料要價30歐元,黃金一公克也是30歐元,所以這個我們用來將食物染色的染料是非常珍貴的。

 

對你我及地球上所有人來說,現在全球情況正不斷變化,世界上人口正以指數爆炸性地增加。現在全球大約有60到70億的人口,到2050年會增加到90億,這意味著我們得餵飽更多人。這是讓越來越多人開始擔憂的事,聯合國糧食及農業組織去年十月開了一個專門探討這個問題的會議。我們將如何餵飽全世界人?如果你看看這些數字,說明了我們將有比現在多三分之一的人口要餵飽,但是農業產出必須增加70%,才能餵飽所有人,這是因為世界上人口的增加,增加的不只是量,我們也越來越富裕,人們一旦富裕,除了開始吃更多,也吃更多的肉。事實上,肉類是一種耗費許多農業產能的東西。

 

我們飲食有一部分是動物性蛋白,目前我們大部分是從家畜、魚類或野味中獲取。我們吃的動物性蛋白質相當多,在已開發國家裡平均每人每年吃80公斤肉,在美國更高達120公斤。某些國家的肉類消耗少一些,但每人每年平均吃了80公斤肉。在開發中國家裡就少很多,每人每年25公斤,但正急速增長中。過去20年裡,在中國肉類消耗量從20公斤增加到50公斤,還在持續增加中。所以,如果世界三分之一的人口肉類消耗量,平均從25公斤增加到80公斤,而世界上三分之一的人口生活在中國和印度,我們對肉類將會有相當大量的需求。當然,我們不能說肉食需求只是對我們而言,不用考慮他們,他們跟我們一樣有同等需求。

 

我必須說,西方國家中的我們吃太多肉了。事實上我們可以少吃很多肉,這點我很清楚,因為我吃素很久了,很容易就能做到這一點。從任何食物中都能獲取蛋白質,再者,肉的生產過程中有很多問題,這些問題會越來越頻繁地出現,首當其衝的是人類健康。豬跟人類很像,不單是人類臨床試驗的替代品,也可以移植豬的器官給人類,這表示豬也能將疾病傳染給人類。豬的疾病,豬的病毒和人的病毒都是會增殖的,因為它們會複製,可以結合而產生一種新病毒,這種情形在1990年代荷蘭爆發的傳統豬瘟裡發生過,這種新型疾病是會致命的。我們吃昆蟲-因為牠們和我們之間的差異十分大,所以不會發生這種情形,所以在這方面,昆蟲獲得一分。

 

(笑聲)

 

另外,還有生產報酬率因素。10公斤飼料可以養出一公斤牛肉,但可以養出9公斤蝗蟲肉。如果你是創業家,你會怎麼做?同樣是10公斤飼料,你可以得到1或9公斤產出,目前我們還是選擇1公斤,或最多到5公斤的產出,我們還沒拿那些紅利,還沒選擇那9公斤的產出,所以昆蟲得兩分。

 

(笑聲)

 

再來是環境的考量。如果我們用10公斤飼料,(笑聲)會產出1公斤牛肉和其他9公斤排泄物,其中大部分變成糞便排出。如果你改養昆蟲,每生出一公斤肉,產生的糞便量較少,產生的排泄物較少。此外,以每公斤糞便產生的氨和溫室氣體來說,昆蟲糞便比牛糞少得多,所以昆蟲的排泄物較少,而且昆蟲排泄物對環境的危害不像牛糞那麼嚴重,昆蟲現在積分為三分。

 

(笑聲)

 

當然,目前有一個大問號,那就是,昆蟲肉的營養價值高嗎?經過各種試驗和分析,就蛋白質、脂肪、維他命含量來看,結果令人滿意。事實上,它能和目前我們吃的任何肉食媲美,甚至以熱量提供來看也是很不錯的。一公斤蚱蜢所含的熱量相當於十條熱狗或六個大麥克堡,昆蟲得到第四分。

 

(笑聲)

 

我可以一直說下去,舉出更多昆蟲的優點,但時間有限,所以問題是,為什麼不吃昆蟲呢?我已經給了大家至少4個吃昆蟲的理由,我們得試試,即使你不喜歡,也得學著適應,因為目前有70%的農業用地被用來飼養牲畜,這包含的不只是放牧、餵養動物需要的土地,還包含種植和運輸飼料所需的土地。我們可以犧牲雨林來增加一點飼養動物的用地,但很快也會達到極限。如果你們還記得,農業產出量還需要增加70%,但我們做不到這點,所以我們最好從吃肉,從吃牛肉,轉變成吃昆蟲。此外,世界上有80%的人已經在吃昆蟲了,事實上,我們這些在英國、美國、荷蘭等各地不吃昆蟲的人才是少數。你們在左邊看到的是寮國的市場,有大量的、各式各樣的昆蟲讓你選擇來做晚餐。在右邊的是一隻蚱蜢,那裡的人們吃蚱蜢,不是因為沒東西吃,而是因為他們覺得蚱蜢是美食。昆蟲是非常棒的食物,有很多種類可享用,它有很多益處。

 

事實上,我們有些美食跟蚱蜢很像。例如蝦,美食之一,售價高得不得了,誰不愛吃蝦?很少人不愛吃蝦,但蝦或螃蟹或小龍蝦,都是非常相近的物種,牠們都是美食,事實上,蝗蟲就是陸上的蝦,很適合我們食用。那為什麼我們還不吃昆蟲呢?這跟心態有關。我們還不習慣,我們將昆蟲視為跟我們相當不同的生物,所以我們要改變對昆蟲的認知。我跟我的同事Arnold van Huis正努力告訴人們昆蟲是什麼,昆蟲是多美妙的東西,對大自然的貢獻有多大。事實上,沒有昆蟲,我們今天也不可能在這裡。因為如果昆蟲滅絕,我們很快也會滅絕;如果人類滅絕了,昆蟲仍會非常快樂地生存下去。

 

(笑聲)

 

所以我們得適應吃昆蟲的想法。也許有人會想,還無法買到食用昆蟲,其實它們已可買到。在荷蘭已有生產昆蟲的創業家,現場聽眾中就有他們當中的一員。相片中的人是Marian Peeters,不是一眼就能辨認出來,而是以動物蛋白的方式出現在食品裡。也許在2020年之前,你買它們的時候,就知道這是一種你打算要吃的昆蟲,它們會被做成最美味的佳餚。這是一位荷蘭巧克力師傅。(音樂)(掌聲)還能做成很多設計和裝飾。

 

(笑聲)

 

在荷蘭,我們有位富創新精神的農業部長,她指示將昆蟲放進部裡餐廳的菜單上,最近她將歐盟各國的農業部長請到海牙來,一起去一間高級餐廳享用昆蟲餐。這不只是我的個人愛好,這將會真正成為一股流行,所以,為何不吃昆蟲?你該親自試試。幾年前,我們召集了1750人同時在Wageningen市的廣場品嚐昆蟲,這在當時還是條大新聞。我想不久後,當我們全都吃昆蟲時,這就不再會是大新聞了,因為這再平常不過了。

 

所以今天你可以親自試一試,我會祝你用餐愉快。我讓Bruno先來試一試,他可以當第一個試吃的。

 

(掌聲)

 

Bruno Giussani:先看看這些美味。

 

Marcel Dicke:這都是蛋白質。

 

BG:這跟你在影片裡看到的一模一樣,看起來相當美味,裡面還加了堅果之類的。

 

MD:謝謝。

 

(掌聲)

 

 

 

以下為系統擷取之英文原文

About the Talk

Marcel Dicke makes an appetizing case for adding insects to everyone's diet. His message to squeamish chefs and foodies: delicacies like locusts and caterpillars compete with meat in flavor, nutrition and eco-friendliness.

About the Speaker

Marcel Dicke wants us to reconsider our relationship with insects, promoting bugs as a tasty -- and ecologically sound -- alternative to meat in an increasingly hungry world. Full bio and more links

Transcript

Okay, I'm going to show you again something about our diets. And I would like to know what the audience is. And so who of you ever ate insects? That's quite a lot. (Laughter) But still, you're not representing the overall population of the Earth. (Laughter) Because there's 80 percent out there that really eats insects. But this is quite good.

Why not eat insects? Well first, what are insects? Insects are animals that walk around on six legs. And here you see just a selection. There's six million species of insects on this planet, six million species. There's a few hundreds of mammals -- six million species of insects. In fact, if we count all the individual organisms, we would come at much larger numbers. In fact, of all animals on Earth, of all animal species, 80 percent walks on six legs. But if we would count all the individuals, and take an average weight of them, it would amount to something like 200 to 2,000 kg. for each of you and me on Earth. That means that in terms of biomass insects are more abundant than we are. And we're not on a planet of men, but we're on a planet of insects. Insects are not only there in nature, but they also are involved in our economy, usually without us knowing.

There was an estimation, a conservative estimation, a couple of years ago that the U.S. economy benefited by 57 billion dollars per year. It's a number -- very large -- a contribution to the economy of the United States for free. And so I looked up what the economy was paying for the war in Iraq in the same year. It was 80 billion U.S. dollars. Well we know that that was not a cheap war. So insects, just for free, contribute to the economy of the United States with about the same order of magnitude just for free, without everyone knowing. And not only in the States, but in any country, in any economy.

What do they do? They remove dung, they pollinate our crops. A third of all the fruits that we eat are all a result of insects taking care of the reproduction of plants. They control pests. And they're food for animals. They're at the start of food chains. Small animals eat insects. Even larger animals eat insects. But the small animals that eat insects are being eaten by larger animals, still larger animals. And at the end of the food chain, we are eating them as well. There's quite a lot of people that are eating insects. And here you see me in a small, provincial town in China, Lijiang -- about two million inhabitants. If you go out for dinner, like in a fish restaurant, where you can select which fish you want to eat, you can select which insects you would like to eat. And they prepare it in a wonderful way. And here you see me enjoying a meal with caterpillars, locusts, bee, [unclear] delicacies. And you can eat something new everyday. There's more than 1,000 species of insects that are being eaten all around the globe. That's quite a bit more than just a few mammals that we're eating, like a cow or a pig or a sheep. More than 1,000 species -- an enormous variety. And now you may think, okay, in this provincial town in China they're doing that, but not us.

Well we've seen already that quite some of you already ate insects maybe occasionally. But I can tell you that everyone of you is eating insects, without any exception. You're eating at least 500 grams per year. What are you eating? Tomato soup, peanut butter, chocolate, noodles -- any processed food that you're eating contains insects, because insects are here all around us, and when they're out there in nature they're also in our crops. Some fruits get some insect damage. Those are the fruits, if they're tomato, that go to the tomato soup. If they don't have any damage, they go to the grocery. And that's your view of a tomato. But there's tomatoes that end up in a soup. And as long as they meet the requirements of the food agency, there can be all kinds of things in there, no problem. In fact, why would we put these balls in the soup, there's meat in there anyway? (Laughter) In fact, all our processed foods contain more proteins than we would be aware of. So anything is a protein source already.

Now you may say, "Okay, so we're eating 500 grams just by accident." We're even doing this on purpose in a lot of food items that we have. I have only two items here on the slide -- pink cookies or surimi sticks or, if you like, Campari. A lot of our food products that are of a red color are dyed with a natural dye. The surimi sticks is crab meat, or is being sold as crab meat, is white fish that's being dyed with cochineal. Cochineal is a product of an insect that lives off the cacti. It's being produced in large amounts, 150 to 180 metric tons per year, in the Canary Islands in Peru, and it's big business. One gram of cochineal costs about 30 euros. One gram of gold is 30 euros. So it's a very precious thing that we're using to dye our foods.

Now the situation in the world is going to change, for you and me, for everyone on this Earth. The human population is growing very rapidly and is growing exponentially. Where at the moment we have something between six and seven billion people, it will grow to about nine billion in 2050. That means that we have a lot more mouths to feed. And this is something that worries more and more people. There was an FAO conference last October that was completely devoted to this. How are we going to feed this world? And if you look at the figures up there, it says that we have a third more mouths to feed, but we need agricultural production increase of 70 percent. And that's especially because this world population in increasing, and it's increasing, not only in numbers, but we're also getting wealthier, and anyone that gets wealthier starts to eat more and also starts to eat more meat. And meat, in fact, is something that costs a lot of our agricultural production.

Our diet consists for some part of animal proteins, and at the moment, most of us here get it from livestock, from fish, from game. And we eat quite a lot of it. In the Developed World it's on average 80 kg. per person per year, which goes up to 120 in the United States and a bit lower in some other countries, but on average 80 kg. per person per year. In the Developing World it's much lower. It's 25 kg. per person per year. But it's increasing enormously. In China in the last 20 years, it increased from 20 to 50, and it's still increasing. So if a third of the world population is going to increase its meat consumption from 25 to 80 on average, and a third of the world population is living in China and in India, we're having an enormous demand on meat. And of course, we are not there to say, it's only for us, it's not for them. They have the same share that we have.

Now to start with, I should say that we are eating way too much meat in the Western world. We could do with much, much less -- and I know, I've been a vegetarian for a long time. And you can easily do without anything. You'll get proteins in any kind of food anyway. But then there's a lot of problems that come with meat production, and we're being faced with that more and more often. The first problem that we're facing is human health. Pigs are quite like us. They're even models in medicine. And we can even transplant organs from a pig to a human. That means that pigs also share diseases with us. And a pig disease, a pig virus, and a human virus can both proliferate. And because of their kind of reproduction, they can combine and produce a new virus. This has happened in The Netherlands in the 1990's during the classical swine fever outbreak. You get a new disease that can be deadly. We eat insects -- they're so distantly related from us, that this doesn't happen. So that's one point for insects.

(Laughter)

And there's the conversion factor. You take 10 kg. of feed, you can get one kg. of beef, but you can get nine kg. of locust meat. So if you would be an entrepreneur, what would you do? With 10 kg. of input, you can get either one or nine kg. of output. So far we're taking the one, or up to five kg. of output. We're not taking the bonus yet. We're not taking the nine kg. of output yet. So that's two points for insects.

(Laughter)

And there's the environment. If we take 10 kg. of food -- (Laughter) and it results in one kilogram of beef, the other nine kg. are waste, and a lot of that is manure. If you produce insects, you have less manure per kg. of meat that you produce. So less waste. Furthermore, per kg. of manure, you have much, much less ammonia and fewer greenhouse gases when you have insect manure than when you have cow manure. So you have less waste, and the waste that you have is not as environmental malign as it is with cow dung. So that's three points for insects.

(Laughter)

Now there's a big "if" of course, and it is if insects produce meat that is of good quality. Well there have been all kinds of analysese and in terms of protein, or fat, or vitamins, it's very good. In fact, it's comparable to anything we eat as meat at the moment. And even in terms of calories, it is very good. One kg. of grasshoppers has the same amount of calories as 10 hot dogs, or six Big Macs. So that's four points for insects.

(Laughter)

I can go on, and I could make many more points for insects, but time doesn't allow this. So the question is, why not eat insects? I gave you at least four arguments in favor. We'll have to. Even if you don't like it, you'll have to get used to this. Because at the moment, 70 percent of all our agricultural land is being used to produce livestock. That's not only the land where the livestock is walking and feeding, but it's also other areas where the feed is being produced and being transported. We can increase it a bit at the expense of rainforests, but there's a limitation very soon. And if you remember that we need to increase agricultural production by 70 percent, we're not going to make it that way. We could much better from meat, from beef, to insects. And then 80 percent of the world already eats insects, so we are just a minority -- in a country like the U.K., the USA, The Netherlands, anywhere. On the left-hand side, you see a market in Laos where they have abundantly present all kinds of insects that you choose for dinner for the night. On the right-hand side you see a grasshopper. So people there are eating them, not because they're hungry, but because they think it's a delicacy. It's just very good food. You can vary enormously. It has many benefits.

In fact, we have delicacy that's very much like this grasshopper: shrimps, a delicacy being sold at a high price. Who wouldn't like to eat a shrimp? There are a few people who don't like shrimp, but shrimp, or crabs, or crayfish, are very closely related. They are delicacies. In fact, a locust is a shrimp of the land, and it would make very good into our diet. So why are we not eating insects yet? Well that's just a matter of mindset. We're not used to it, and we see insects as these organisms that are very different from us. That's why we're changing the perception of insects. And I'm working very hard with my colleague, Arnold van Huis, in telling people what insects are, what magnificent things they are, what magnificent jobs they do in nature. And in fact, without insects, we would not be here in this room. Because if the insects die out, we will soon die out as well. If we die out, the insects will continue very happily.

(Laughter)

So we have to get used to the idea of eating insects. And someone might think, well they're not yet available. Well they are. There are entrepreneurs in The Netherlands that produce them, and one of them is here in the audience, Marian Peeters, who's in the picture. I predict that later this year, you'll get them in the supermarkets -- not visible, but as animal protein in the food. And maybe by 2020, you'll buy them just knowing that this is an insect that you're going to eat. And they're being made in the most wonderful ways. A Dutch chocolate maker. (Music) (Applause) So there's even a lot of design to it.

(Laughter)

Well in the Netherlands, we have an innovative minister of agriculture, and she puts the insects on the menu in her restaurant in her ministry. And when she got all the ministers of agriculture of the E.U. over to The Hague recently, she went to a high-class restaurant, and they ate insects all together. It's not something that is a hobby of mine. It's really taken off the ground. So why not eat insects? You should try it yourself. A couple of years ago, we had 1,750 people all together in a square in Wageningen town, and they ate insects at the same moment, and this was still big, big news. I think soon it will not be big news anymore when we all eat insects, because it's just a normal way of doing.

So you can try it yourself today, and I would say enjoy. And I'm going to show to Bruno some first tries, and he can have the first bite.

(Applause)

Bruno Giussani: Look at them first. Look at them first.

Marcel Dicke: It's all protein.

BG: That's exactly the same [one]you saw in the video actually. And it looks delicious. They just make it [with] nuts or something.

MD: Thank you.

(Applause)
 


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有關本課程的討論

课程讨论
说的我有点想吃昆虫

Anonymous, 2011-08-14 14:44:34
課程討論
英文原文內容似乎為誤植.
Anonymous, 2011-07-15 11:22:55
課程討論
英文內容對不上
Anonymous, 2011-07-14 15:00:15
課程討論
英文與中文不符,應是誤植。
Anonymous, 2011-07-14 01:21:14

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