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Wael Ghonim 談埃及革命的内幕

Wael Ghonim: Inside the Egyptian revolution

 

Photo of three lions hunting on the Serengeti.

講者:Wael Ghonim

2011年3月演講,2011年3月在TED2011上線

 

翻譯:TED

編輯:朱學恆、洪曉慧

簡繁轉換:洪曉慧

後製:洪曉慧

字幕影片後制:謝旻均

 

影片請按此下載

MAC及手持裝置版本請按此下載

閱讀中文字幕純文字版本

 

關於這場演講

Wael Ghonim是Google的行銷經理,他幫助發起了埃及的民主革命,一切都開始於Facebook上一個紀念遭受埃及政府暴力迫害的受害者網頁。Wael在TEDxCairo演講中敍述了過去兩個月的内幕,同時埃及人民亦證明了「人民力量更勝於當權者力量。」

 

關於Wael Ghonim

Google行銷經理Wael Ghonim開設一個Facebook網頁,在埃及民主革命中引發對政府的抗議聲浪。

 

為什麼要聽他演講

Wael Ghonim是網路活動家和電腦工程師,及Google駐中東及北非的行銷經理。在網路上以「ElShaheeed」為匿名的他,開設了一個有影響力的Facebook頁面,在埃及革命中引發對政府的抗議聲浪。2011年初,他被埃及政府拘留11天-當他在國際輿論壓力下被釋放後,透露了他的身份,並成為這場青年革命中迫使埃及總統Hosni Mubarak下台的領導人物。

 

「我們的革命就像維基百科,不是嗎?每個人都對內容有所貢獻,[但]你不知道貢獻者姓名。這就是所發生的情況。發生在埃及的革命2.0情況完全相同。每個人或多或少都做出了一點貢獻。我們為這場革命勾勒出完整的藍圖。在這個藍圖中,沒有人是英雄。」

-Warl Ghonim接受《60分鐘》節目訪問

 

Wael Ghonim的英語網上資料

Twitter: @Ghonim

 

[TED科技‧娛樂‧設計]

已有中譯字幕的TED影片目錄(繁體)(簡體)。請注意繁簡目錄是不一樣的。

 

Wael Ghonim 談埃及革命的内幕

這是革命2.0,沒有任何人是英雄,沒有任何人是英雄,因為每個人都是英雄。每個人都做了一些事,我們都用維基百科。試想維基百科的基本概念,其內容由眾人合作編輯而成,到了最後,你將創造出世界上最大的百科全書。這個聽來瘋狂的主意,實際著手進行卻能讓你得到世界上最大的百科全書。

 

在埃及革命-革命2.0中,每個人都做出了一點貢獻,或多或少都做出了一點貢獻,這帶給我們人類歷史裡,所有關於革命的故事中,一個最發人深省的故事。看到所有埃及人有如此完全的改變,確實相當令人鼓舞。如果你觀察局勢的演變,近30年來,埃及一直處於劣勢,每況愈下,一切都越變越糟、越變越差。我們名列前茅的就只有貧窮、貪腐、缺乏言論自由及缺乏政治參與權等這類壞事,這都是我們偉大政府的偉大成就。然而,一切依然毫無改變。這不是因為人民很高興或是不感到焦慮,事實上,人民感到十分焦慮。大家之所以保持靜默,是因為我所謂的恐懼心理障礙,大家都感到害怕。並不是每一個人,事實上,的確有幾位勇敢的埃及人,我對他們如此勇敢心懷感謝。有幾百個人走上街頭抗議,他們被毆打或逮捕。然而,事實上,大部分人是害怕的,每個人都不想真正惹上麻煩。

 

獨裁者少不了武力,他們希望讓人民活在恐懼裡,恐懼的心理障礙這麼多年來都很有效。接下來有了網際網路、黑莓機、簡訊這些科技,幫助我們大家彼此聯繫。像YouTube、Twitter、Facebook等平臺給了我們很大幫助,因為基本上它使我們覺得,「哇,我並不孤單,很多人也跟我一樣深感焦慮。」很多人感到焦慮。事實上,很多人有相同的夢想,很多人在乎自己的自由。他們或許過著全世界最棒的生活,他們活在幸福裡,他們住在他們的別墅裡,他們很開心,他們沒有煩惱,但他們仍然感受到埃及人民的痛楚。

 

很多人真的不是很高興,當我們在影片裡看到一個埃及人在吃垃圾,而同時卻有其他人從國家財產裡偷了幾十億埃及鎊。網路扮演了一個重要的角色,幫助這些人說出了他們的心聲,團結合作,並開始一起思考。那是一個教育性質的活動。

 

Khaled Saeed在2010年6月被殺死了,我還記得那張照片,我仍記得那張照片的每個細節。那張照片相當恐怖,他被刑求,殘酷地被折磨至死,然而政府當局的回答是什麼?他是被一團大麻嗆死的。這是他們的回答,「他是個罪犯,他是逃避所有壞事的人。」但人們並不這麼想,人們並不相信這個說辭,因為有了網路,真相被公佈,大家都知道了真相。大家開始思考,「這個人也可能是我兄弟。」他是個中產階級,我們大家都還記得他的照片。

 

有人開了一個網頁,一個匿名的網頁管理者,基本上邀請人們加入這個網頁,那時還沒有任何計劃,我們不知道要-「我們要做什麼?」「我不知道。」幾天內,聚集了成千上萬憤怒的埃及人,要求內政部,「我們受夠了,把殺他的人揪出來,將他們繩之以法。」但是,當然,他們並不理會。那是個不可思議的故事,每個人都開始覺得這與自己切身相關,每個人都成了那個網頁的主人。人們開始提出意見,事實上,其中最奇怪的主意之一是,嘿,讓我們來個沉默的靜立,讓我們找人走上街頭,面對海,背對街,身穿黑衣,靜靜地站立一個小時,什麼都不做,然後就那麼掉頭回家。對某些人而言,這就像,「哇,先是靜立,下次就是震動模式。」人們拿這個主意開玩笑,然而,事實上,當人們真正走上街頭時,第一次就有數千人聚集在亞歷山大港,那感覺起來-相當不可思議、相當棒,因為這將虛擬世界裡的人們連結在一起,然後帶入真實世界,分享了同樣的夢想、同樣的焦慮、同樣的憤怒、同樣對自由的渴望。他們正著手進行這件事,然而政府當局學到什麼了嗎?並沒有。當局反而攻擊他們、凌辱他們,儘管這些人如此和平,他們甚至沒有進行抗議。情況繼續發展,直到發生突尼西亞革命。

 

這整個網頁再度由人們共同參與管理。事實上,匿名的管理工作是收集意見,幫助人們進行票選,並確切告訴人們他們在做什麼。人們拍攝相片,人們舉發埃及國內發生的違反人權事件,人們提出意見,他們事實上對這些意見進行票選,接下來便執行那些意見、拍攝影片。所有的事都是人民所作所為,這就是網路的力量。這個運動並沒有領導者,網頁上每個人都是領導者。突尼西亞的經驗,正如Amir所言,啟發了我們每個人,讓我們看到一條可行的道路。是的,我們可以,我們辦得到,我們擁有同樣的困境,我們可以走上街頭。

 

當我看到25號那天街上的情景後,我回到家說,「25號之前的埃及和25號之後的埃及將會完全不同了,革命正在發生,這不是結束,這是結束的開端。」我在27號當晚被拘禁,感謝上天,我公佈了我的所在地點和所有事項,但他們將我扣留住。我不打算在這裡談論我的經歷,因為發生在我身上的事並不重要。我被拘留了12天,眼睛被矇起來,手被銬著,我什麼消息都聽不到,什麼都不知道,我無法跟任何人說話。然後我被釋放了。隔天我到了Tahrir廣場,說真的,我在這個廣場中所觀察到的改變,讓我以為已經過了12年。我從未想過有一天能看到像這樣的埃及人,如此令人訝異的埃及人。恐懼已不再是恐懼,它已轉換成力量。人民變得如此有力量,看到大家都如此有力量相當不可思議。現在他們開始要求他們的權利,情勢完全逆轉,極端主義變成寬容。

 

在25號以前,誰能想像到這種情景?如果我告訴你,成千上萬的基督徒將會祈禱,成千上萬的回教徒將會保護他們,成千上萬的回教徒也將會祈禱,成千上萬的基督徒也會保護他們,這真是太不可思議了。所有政府當局想要灌輸給我們的刻板印象,透過所謂的文宣,或主流媒體來傳導的這些觀念,都被證明是錯誤的。這場革命讓我們看到了這個政權是多麼醜惡,埃及的男人及女人們又是多麼了不起。當他們擁有夢想時,他們變得多麼坦率及傑出。

 

當我目睹這一切,我回家在Facebook上留了言,那是我個人的信念,跟發生的事無關,跟事情的細節無關,我寫道,「我們將會勝利。我們將會勝利,因為我們不懂政治;我們將會勝利,因為我們不玩骯髒的把戲;我們將會勝利,因為我們沒有既定的目標;我們將會勝利,因為我們眼中流出的淚,來自於我們的真心;我們將會勝利,因為我們擁有夢想;我們將會勝利,因為我們願意為我們的夢想奮戰。」最後結果是,我們真的贏了。不是因為別的,只因為我們相信我們的夢想。這個勝利不在於政治舞台上將會發生的細節,這個勝利在於贏回了每個埃及人的尊嚴。

 

事實上,有個計程車司機告訴我,「聽,我在呼吸自由,我又重新感受到失去多年的尊嚴。」對我而言那才是勝利,和所有的細節無關。

 

我最後要告訴你們的,是一個我所相信的理念,埃及人民也證明了這個理念,那就是人民的力量遠遠勝過了當權者的力量。

 

非常感謝

 

(掌聲)

 

以下為系統擷取之英文原文

About this Talk

Wael Ghonim is the Google executive who helped jumpstart Egypt's democratic revolution ... with a Facebook page memorializing a victim of the regime's violence. Speaking at TEDxCairo, he tells the inside story of the past two months, when everyday Egyptians showed that "the power of the people is stronger than the people in power."

About the Speaker

Google executive Wael Ghonim began a Facebook page that galvanized protest in Egypt's democratic revolution. Full bio and more links

Transcript

This is revolution 2.0. No one was a hero. No one one was a hero. Because everyone was a hero. Everyone has done something. We all use Wikipedia. If you think of the concept of Wikipedia where everyone is collaborating on content. And at the end of the day you've built the largest encyclopedia in the world. From just an idea that sounded crazy, you have the largest encyclopedia in the world.

And in the Egyptian revolution, the revolution 2.0, everyone has contributed something -- small or big, they contributed something -- to bring us one of the most inspiring stories in the history of mankind when it comes to revolutions. It was actually really inspiring to see all these Egyptians completely changing. If you look at the scene, Egypt, for 30 years, had been in a downhill -- going into a downhill. Everything was going bad. Everything was going wrong. We only ranked high when it comes to poverty, corruption, lack of freedom of speech, lack of political activism. Those were the achievements of our great regime. Yet, nothing was happening. And it's not because people were happy or people were not frustrated. In fact, people were extremely frustrated. But the reason why everyone was silent is what I call the psychological barrier of fear. Everyone was scared. Not everyone. There were actually a few brave Egyptians that I have to thank for being so brave -- going into protests as a couple of hundred, getting beaten up and arrested. But in fact, the majority were scared. Everyone did not want really to get in trouble.

A dictator cannot live without the force. They want to make people live in fear. And that psychological barrier of fear had worked for so many years, and here comes the Internet, technology, BlackBerry, SMS. It's helping all of us to connect. Platforms like YouTube, Twitter, Facebook were helping us a lot, because it basically gave us the impression that, "Wow, I'm not alone. There are a lot of people who are frustrated." There are lots of people who are frustrated. There are lots of people who actually share the same dream. There are lots of people who care about their freedom. They probably have the best life in the world. They are living in happiness. They are living in their villas. They are happy; they don't have problems. But they are still feeling the pain of the Egyptian.

A lot of us, we're not really happy when we see a video of an Egyptian man who's eating the trash while others are stealing billions of Egyptian pounds from the wealth of the country. The Internet has played a great role, helping these people to speak up their minds, to collaborate together, to start thinking together. It was an educational campaign.

Khaled Saeed was killed in June 2010. I still remember the photo. I still remember every single detail of that photo. The photo was horrible. He was tortured, brutally tortured to death. But then what was the answer of the regime? He choked on a pile of hash. That was their answer: "He's a criminal. He's someone who escaped from all these bad things." But people did not relate to this. People did not believe this. Because of the Internet, the truth prevailed and everyone knew the truth. And everyone started to think that "this guy could be my brother." He was a middle-class guy. His photo was remembered by all of us.

A page was created. An anonymous administrator was basically inviting people to join the page, and there was no plan. "What are we going to do?" "I don't know." In a few days, tens of thousands of people there -- angry Egyptians who were asking the ministry of interior affairs, "Enough. Get those who killed this guy to just bring them to justice." But of course, they don't listen. It was an amazing story -- how everyone started feeling the ownership. Everyone was an owner in this page. People started contributing ideas. In fact, one of the most ridiculous ideas was, hey, let's have a silent stand. Let's get people to go in the street, face the sea, their back to the street, dressed in black, standing up silently for one hour, doing nothing and then just leaving, going back home. For some people, that was like, "Wow, silent stand. And next time it's going to be vibration." People were making fun of the idea. But actually when people went to the street -- the first time it was thousands of people in Alexandria -- it felt like -- it was amazing. It was great. Because it connected people from the virtual world, bringing them to the real world, sharing the same dream, the same frustration, the same anger, the same desire for freedom. And they were doing this thing. But did the regime learn anything? Not really. They were actually attacking them. They were actually abusing them, despite the fact of how peaceful these guys were -- they were not even protesting. And things had developed until the Tunisian revolution.

This whole page was, again, managed by the people. In fact, the anonymous admin job was to collect ideas, help people to vote on them and actually tell them what they are doing. People were taking shots and photos; people were reporting violations of Human Rights in Egypt; people were suggesting ideas, they were actually voting on ideas, and then they were executing the ideas; people were creating videos. Everything was done by the people to the people, and that's the power of the Internet. There was no leader. The leader was everyone on that page. The Tunisian experiment, as Amir was saying, inspired all of us, showed us that there is a way. Yes we can. We can do it. We have the same problems, we can just go in the streets.

And when I saw the street on the 25th, I went back and said, "Egypt before the 25th is never going to be Egypt after the 25th. The revolution is happening. This is not the end, this is the beginning of the end." I was detained on the 27th night. Thank God I announced the locations and everything. But they detained me. And I'm not going to talk about my experience, because this is not about me. I was detained for 12 days, blindfolded, handcuffed. And I did not really hear anything. I did not know anything. I was not allowed to speak with anyone. And I went out. The next day I was in Tahrir. Seriously, with the amount of change I had noticed in this square, I thought it was 12 years. I never had in my mind to see this Egyptian, the amazing Egyptian. The fear is no longer fear. It's actually strength -- it's power. People were so empowered. It was amazing how everyone was so empowered and now asking for their rights. Completely opposite. Extremism became tolerance.

Who would [have] imagined before the 25th, if I tell you that hundreds of thousands of Christians are going to pray and tens of thousands of Muslims are going to protect them, and then hundreds of thousands of Muslims are going to pray and tens of thousands of Christians are going to protect them -- this is amazing. All the stereotypes that the regime was trying to put on us through their so-called propaganda, or mainstream media, are proven wrong. This whole revolution showed us how ugly such a regime was and how great and amazing the Egyptian man, the Egyptian woman, how simple and amazing these people are whenever they have a dream.

When I saw that, I went back and I wrote on Facebook. And that was a personal belief, regardless of what's going on, regardless of the details. I said that, "We are going to win. We are going to win because we don't understand politics. We're going to win because we don't play their dirty games. We're going to win because we don't have an agenda. We're going to win because the tears that come from our eyes actually come from our hearts. We're going to win because we have dreams. We're going to win because we are willing to stand up for our dreams." And that's actually what happened. We won. And that's not because of anything, but because we believed in our dream. The winning here is not the whole details of what's going to happen in the political scene. The winning is the winning of the dignity of every single Egyptian.

Actually, I had this taxi driver telling me, "Listen, I am breathing freedom. I feel that I have dignity that I have lost for so many years." For me that's winning, regardless of all the details.

My last word to you is a statement I believe in, which Egyptians have proven to be true, that the power of the people is much stronger than the people in power.

Thanks a lot.

(Applause)

 


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apple daily correct ghonim = egypt

Anonymous, 2011-10-03 08:14:33

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